Podcast 29: Email Marketing Strategy with Austin Brawner

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Austin Brawner: Hey, what’s up Drew? How are you doing, man?

Drew Sanocki: Hey, Austin. I’m doing well. How are you?

Austin Brawner: I’m good. I’m pumped to be doing this joint podcast together. We’ve been talking a long time about doing a joint podcast or a joint project and here it is and hopefully, it fulfills everything. We’ve been getting lots of e-mails from people wanting to hear us on the same podcast.

Drew Sanocki: Either they want to hear us on the same podcast or they want us to fight.

Austin Brawner: Which is great because we’re actually going to be fighting on this podcast.

Drew Sanocki: We’re going to do both.

Austin Brawner: We’ll take care of both.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, I mean nerd marketing and e-com influence have been sort of sniffing each other’s butts for what? Six, eight months now?

Austin Brawner: Maybe longer, maybe longer. We’ve had a lot in common. We’ve been thinking about ways to work together and this is kind of our, well, the podcast here is kind of our idea of bringing our knowledge together from spending, you spent how many years longer than I have, 10, 15 years in e-commerce.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah. You’re rubbing it in. 15 years. Motherfucker.

Austin Brawner: Our, the last half a decade at least, in e-commerce, driving sales and we wanted to come together, bring a podcast together where we share our best tips, the stuff that we’ve learned that works and it’s working right now.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, I think, I listen to a lot of e-commerce podcast and really, I find that you and I talk about a lot of the same stuff. We’re always hammering home the importance of retention, of e-mail marketing, of lifetime value and so I’m psyched. I’m psyched that we’re doing this joint podcast and we’re going to talk about some cool stuff today.

Austin Brawner: Why don’t you kick it off and give us, for our listeners, why don’t you give them kind of a breakdown of your experience with Karmaloop because I think that’s a great kind of tone setting story that gives people an idea what we mean by retention and e-mail, and what that looks like.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, and then I think after that, if you could maybe talk some about your experience from iList, that and my listeners.

Austin Brawner: Yes.

Drew Sanocki: Great, so yeah, my name is Drew Sanocki. I blog at nerdmarketing.com and I’ve got about 15 years in e-commerce. I started my own drop ship retailer back in 2003 and grew and sold that in 2011, and after that, I started kind of consulting for private equity shops and the companies that they operate and if a company needs an operator, I would get involved. Most recently, I was the CMO of a company called Karmaloop. It was a previously $100 million online retailer, streetwear apparel retailer that went bankrupt and I was part of the team that went in, bought them out of bankruptcy and grew them to profitability over about a year. The top challenge for us there was this was a company that at one point had the resources to do pretty much anything they wanted, so they were spending through the nose on AdWords, on Facebook, on Instagram, on really any marketing tactic you could think of.

They were trying it and as they were doing this, they were still slowly descending into bankruptcy. Revenue was going down month over month, traffic going down month over month and it wasn’t until our new team did one big thing, made one big shift that the business really turned around and that was moving from an acquisition emphasis to a retention emphasis, getting people to come back to the site primarily through e-mail and buy, buy more. We did that three months and all metrics were sort of up into the right and within 10 months, we’d sold the business for about $10 million more than we bought it. It was, personally, it was a nice experience for me. It was a great win and it really just ramped home something I believed in and had learned throughout my career and that’s the power of e-mail marketing and sort of that retention perspective to really drive profits and revenue so that’s a little bit of my background and maybe Austin, you could talk a little bit about yourself. Introduce yourself to the many listeners of Nerd Marketing.

Austin Brawner: Sure, so my name’s Austin Brawner. I host the Ecommerce Influence Podcast. I also partnered with Drew in a project called brandgrowthexperts.com and also am the CMO of the company called boomboomenergy.com, and the last, I first got involved with e-commerce about I guess five years ago. I’ve been working for a startup in Los Angeles where we had, we were selling a franchise and we’re selling it online through lead generation where we’re using Infusionsoft and we’re driving tons of leads into a lead capture form and then built out sophisticated automated systems that helped us to categorize those leads, sort them and then close them on these large, basically $100,000 deals. The company grew very, very quickly. When I first got there, we were at about I think $100,000 in sales and then when I left two and a half years later, we were around $10 million in sales.

What I learned there, after building all these automate e-mail sequences, was the power of segmentation and the power of automation and so at the time, I was quite interested in what some of my friends were doing, which is building e-commerce companies, so I took what I was doing there and I started working with different online brands and installing some of these automated, segmented e-mail marketing sequences into e-commerce companies and started just seeing there massive results because that was a place that was underserved in a lot of these. I mean still to this day when I work with a lot of brands, they’re great on product, they’re great on branding, not very good on the e-mail marketing side, so that’s where sort of focusing, started working with larger and larger brands. Worked at companies like Stance socks. Worked for the company MVMT Watches, helping them with their referral marketing campaigns, Pura Vida bracelets and just continue to kind of step up and work with larger and larger companies and from there, build my marketing agency and then also done a lot of consulting with these companies.

During that time, I realized there was a lot of similarities between these companies and I kept seeing kind of the same things over and over again, the same levers that get pulled to be able to drive sales and those typically were focusing on lead capture side, ramping up lead capture, which we were citing about with retention, building systems that drive retention and figuring out how to get a customer to make that second purchase and so been doing that for the last five years and that’s really my expertise as well as Drew’s. Today, we want to talk, give you guys some kind of tips that you guys can take and install them in your business and drive sales.

Drew Sanocki: Yes, and I would add that those companies you mentioned are some of Shopify’s biggest stores, if not the biggest.

Austin Brawner: They are.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, so this stuff works.

Austin Brawner: Yeah.

Drew Sanocki: I mean we both sort of have bounced back and forth between consulting and operating, back to consulting and back to operating, and I think, I’m just speaking for myself, I’ve consulted on a number of different parts of e-commerce and sometimes you can get Facebook to work, sometimes you can’t, sometimes you can get AdWords or some other acquisition channel to work, but the e-mail almost universally works like it just always works and that’s kind of why I love it. It’s also almost always underused by the company because it’s, I don’t know why, because it’s not sexy I guess, because it’s not purely about acquisition, and people love acquisition and for whatever reason, e-mail though is usually underused and a massive success. I don’t know if you found the same in your own consulting.

Austin Brawner: I have. I’ve also found that I mean really, where the most success comes from, the fact that because it’s a fixed cost, what you pay your e-mail service provider, let’s say you’re using Klaviyo. You’re spending $1,000 a month. That $1,000 a month is fixed if you’re spending, if you’re sending people five e-mails a month or one e-mail a month, it’s exactly the same cost, so where a lot of the success comes from is looking at that system, ramping up the number of e-mail that go out, successful e-mails that go out because unlike Facebook and AdWords, to send five more e-mails, you’re not paying five times more. You’re paying the same amount and getting five times return so that’s a big reason in why it’s so profitable for people.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, so Austin and I’m kind of reefing on the benefits of e-mail here, I thought of another one. Just by working in private equity for the last few years now, I think I’ve been a part of maybe 10 different e-commerce M&A deals and I think it almost universally, it’s either the first or second question that gets asked during the diligence process is how big is your list and that probably comes from the old catalog marketing days, but if you are going to sell your direct to consumer or B2B e-commerce business someday, you’re going to get asked how big your list is. They’re going to, the potential buyer might slap a multiple on that or at least use it to calculate the value of your company so it would behoove you today to start thinking strategically about e-mail and really cultivating that as one of the few assets that you can really sell at the end of the day.

Austin Brawner: Absolutely. I’ll just list out a couple of things that I typically see as well when I start working with a new company. Typically, issues that I always will see, one main one is deliverability issues. A lot of people like dealing with that and are kind of don’t know exactly where to go with deliverability. These are regardless how big the company is, still the same sort of issues, deliverability issues. They typically list maintenance issues where you’re growing a list but don’t know how to clean it up and focus on the people who are actually valuable, so segmentation issues, lack of kind of flows, automation, that sort of stuff and just not understanding where, what e-mails are driving sales, not split testing, lots of things, so we’ve got a couple of list, we’ve got basically four things we want to talk about today that are tips you guys can take and install in your business, so why don’t I kick off number one and this has to do with growing your list, which Drew was talking about.

If you guys are listening now and you don’t and you haven’t installed Justuno or an equivalent lead capture solution, I would go into that today. If you’re on Shopify, you can go into the App Store, you can install Justuno directly through one of the apps, and then it’ll install the pixel and let the conversion pixels, you’ll be able to have it up and running. What’s great about Justuno is you can build both a desktop opt-in as well as a separate mobile opt-in and again, they’re going to be a lot different, right. What you’re going to be doing on desktop, we typically recommend focusing on exit, exit offer and you could do that whether it’s free shipping, 10% off or giving away a potential like $100 gift card once a month, doesn’t matter what you’re focusing on, you got to be giving away something or giving an offer because it behooves you guys to grow your list and desktop is one way to do it. Typically, see around like if you’re not getting around 10% to 15% opt-in rate on your desktop exit offer, you’re leaving e-mails on the table.

On the mobile side, again it’s going to be a little bit different. I typically like to do a, I call it a kind of a three step offer, so the first one is a pop up maybe 15 seconds after someone’s been on the site. It will ask them if they want an offer, yes or no. If they click Yes, they’d be given the e-mail opt-in. If they click No, it closes out. After that, they would then have a page where they can enter their e-mail opt-in and then on the third page, deliver whatever coupon or offer that they’re given. If you’re looking at, if you’re on mobile and you’re not capturing around 5% of your traffic and to capturing e-mail opt-ins, you’re leaving a lot on the table, so that’s my takeaway. If you haven’t done that yet, go to Justuno, install it and you’ll have some success there. Drew, you want to kick it off for number two?

Drew Sanocki: Sure, yes. One thing I wanted to add to the pop ups thing is the question I get a lot, Austin, is like I don’t like pop ups or are the pop ups going to interfere with standard buying, like a standard buying flow or something on the site?

Austin Brawner: Sure.

Drew Sanocki: I think the thing about pop ups is you can really customize their behavior these days. It’s not just like they’re going to pop up like they did in the ’80s you know or whatever, when you loaded up a site and they went nuts.

Austin Brawner: Yes.

Drew Sanocki: You can have exit in 10 pop ups so when somebody is on your site, you give them time to buy and if really they’re not interested and they go to leave, then the pop up could appear then with an exit offer, so that’s definitely one of the concerns I feel.

Austin Brawner: You can also target them to only show to first time visitors, right, so if you’re worried about your repeat customers getting frustrated with the pop up, well, you could go turn that off so then people who see it are the first time customers or you can target it based on UTM strength, so if you’re driving traffic from Facebook and these are all new leads and you want to make sure to give yourself the best opportunity to capture them and capitalize on the money you spent on paid traffic, well, you can add the UTM strength to the end of the Facebook ad so when they click on it, the ad’s UTM parameters and then you can have a pop up there, registers to come up and overlay it for only those users, so only first time from Facebook, you’re trying to capture the people who you paid for so yes, you’re right, there’s so many ways.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, that’s really sneaky stuff. I love that. I mean I used to do it all the time too because you can’t, I used to imagine my competitors out there watching my ads and they just, then they would click. They would click to my site but they wouldn’t click through the ad to my site and unless they did that, they would not know that I had some offers that only appeared to the person that was coming through the ad so it’s definitely a way to sort of outmaneuver your competition if they’re not like clicking through to your landing pages.

Austin Brawner: Exactly. Well, you kick it off with number two here.

Drew Sanocki: Yes. Second killer e-mail tip that Austin, I came up with is just this idea of segmentation and targeting and usually when we say that, everybody’s eyes glaze over and they groan and it sounds like it’s some sort of complex thing like medicine. Everybody thinks they need to be taking it, but I just don’t want to do it and the reality is you got to be, the more you segment and target your list, the better just like across all marketing and your e-mails no different. What I mean when I say segmentation and targeting is really just you’re sending the right offer out to the right customer at the right time, or the right messaging to the right customer at the right time so for example, somebody who is new to your site, you might want to give a very different offer or e-mail to than somebody who knows you and has bought from you many, many times right, like you treat one like one of your best customers.

You might treat the other one like a new guest to your home and you want to segment and target like this because you accomplish several things first, but for the first thing you do is you increase relevance so this famous marketer, Seth Godin, one of my favorites, talks a lot about permission marketing and he says, to be super effective, permission marketing has to be three things. It means it’s got to be anticipated, relevant and personal. The more anticipated and relevant and personal you can make your e-mail marketing, the better it will be. What do I mean by better? I mean more people will open the e-mail if it’s relevant to them, if the offers are relevant to them. Your deliverability will go up. Your click through rates will go up and ultimately, your revenue through e-mail, your dollars per subscriber per month will go up.

In the past, when I have say at my own retailer, when I was just doing the blanket blast e-mail sends maybe a couple of times a month to my entire list, I might have been averaging $1 per subscriber per month, but when I started getting more advanced in peeling off certain segments of my list and sending them more targeted e-mails like, “Hey, you bought this, here’s another item that goes with that.”, or “Hey, you let us know that you wanted to know when we had a sale like here’s the sale.”, and “You’re a cohort of new buyers, sorry, new visitors who have never bought from us before. We’re going to give you some first time buyer offers.” When I started doing that kind of marketing, my dollars per subscriber per month went from $1 to over $5 and ultimately, I think we got it up to around $9 per subscriber per month and on a list of 10,000, you’re talking about like almost 10x-ing the revenue you get off that list so that’s why you want to do segmentation and targeting and it’s our number two killer e-mail tip.

Austin Brawner: Yes, and $9, if you can put that in your mind right, start thinking you’re at $1 per subscriber, you can get a better idea of how your own marketing is performing. Start looking at that, calculate that out and that’s one takeaway if you want to go look at your number of subscribers in dollars per month that you guys are driving through e-mail, that’s one thing to take away. For number three, I’m going to talk a little bit about automation. These are a couple of things you guys can do and install and so like what Drew has been talking about with permission marketing and focusing on relevancy, one of the key things you can do is look at your own business and set automation to provide relevant marketing to your customers as they progress through the life cycle. What I mean by that is as people spend more and make more purchases, their marketing experience should evolve. They shouldn’t be getting the same e-mails as somebody who just came and just found you on Facebook, subscribed with their e-mail and hasn’t purchased. You can set automation and this automation can unlock new emails to go out to your top customers as they progress there, so somebody spends, let’s say they make a purchase. Their fourth purchase, they spent $500. You can have an automatic personalized e-mail going out directly from the CEO thanking them for being a customer.

That can also trigger a task to be sent out so someone in your team could send them an actual handwritten letter or something indirect mail. This automation can all be built so that you evolve as the life cycle progresses and people move up and then spend more and more, their experience with you changes and likewise, so those are all, if you want to look at those, it’s all like, you can call my good dog e-mails. If somebody does something good, you reward them. They buy more, you reward them. There’s also on the other side, you can set automation for bad dog e-mails, meaning if somebody abandons their cart or they are browsing and then they abandon, stop browsing at the end of it, you can have e-mails that are triggered off of those actions that go out and follow up with people and try to bring them back in the fold after they’ve basically gone away from the brand, so it’s your chance to bring people back after they’ve shown less interest and so as you build those things, they stack on top of each other.

If you dedicate an hour a day to building and automating these processes, after three months, six months, all of these are stacked on top of each other and the experience for your customers is improved and your sales have gone up and you only need to build them one time, which is the beauty of some of this stuff, unlike Facebook where you’re going to be refreshing your ads every single week as they die out.

Drew Sanocki: Cool, awesome. I’ve got number four. Our fourth and final killer e-mail tip and I think it’s the way I would describe it is think in terms of campaign or series. E-mail marketing is not just about sending a single e-mail off to somebody. What you want to do is send a series that goes out over time and again, to go back to Seth Godin, he talks a lot about e-mail marketing should be like dating or sorry, like asking somebody to get married and you don’t propose on the first date, instead you date somebody for a while and you build up trust and only then, do you propose to that person. Well, e-mail marketing or getting a sale online is no different, you know you don’t ask for the sale on the first visit. You’d be much more effective if you get that person onto your list. You build up trust. You introduce your brand. You show them products and ultimately, sell them at the end of that sequence and the best way to deliver that sequence is through e-mail, so that’s another killer tip and to sort of the pro tip version of that is to use something that I talk about a lot in my blog, it’s called the Discount Ladder concept, and the idea here is too many retailers out there give away too many dollars, promotional dollars, right.

In fact, they give away a lot of promotional dollars when the customer would have bought anyway, so it’s really hidden costs for most retailers if you’ve got somebody who walks into your store, takes out their wallet and is ready to buy that new sweater and just before she buys, you give her a 20% off discount, a coupon, of course she’s going to take that coupon, but you’re out 20%. That’s 20% that comes right out of your margin so the discount ladder idea means that over time, you want to increase the magnitude of the discount until that customer acts, so maybe initially, you give someone a $5, sorry, a 5% discount to come into your store. If they still haven’t come into the store, you give them a 10% off coupon and they still don’t come in and eventually, you give them a 20% off coupon and they come into the store and make that purchase whereas the next customer that walks down the street, maybe he or she comes in when you just start that ladder at the $5, sorry 5% off level, so that’s called a discount ladder.

In terms of e-mail, the fact that you deliver these e-mail campaigns in series makes it really easy to deliver discount ladder so you can sort of set and forget these ladders to encourage things like a first purchase or a second purchase and make sure that you keep your promotional dollars to yourself, so that would be our fourth and final killer e-mail tip. There’s a lot more there, but these were some of the top ones we see that most of our consulting clients are ignoring and benefit from.

Austin Brawner: We’ll even add a super pro tip, which is to take your discount ladder and you can find inter-purchase latency and then also, sync that up with Facebook ads and retargeting so as you’re going to see.

Drew Sanocki: You’re going crazy. That’s a crazy tip.

Austin Brawner: As you will receive your e-mails, as you will receive your e-mails, they’ll all be [inaudible 00:26:54] with their targeting stuff, which is.

Drew Sanocki: I think we need to explain that one.

Austin Brawner: Yeah, okay, we’ll, but that’s a good point so let’s, if you’re focusing on a discount ladder what Drew is talking about, maybe it’s on your 30th, 50th and 70th day of somebody not making a purchase or not making a second purchase, you’ll have a big group of people if you’re a large network retailer that are in that boat where they’ve made one purchase, but had a purchase again, so you can target them with e-mails and at the same time, you can set up a segment in Klaviyo where, and sync that with your Facebook audience so that as people hit that trigger, right, meaning the 30 days and they haven’t made a second purchase, they can receive an e-mail and at the same time be added into a retargeting campaign that’s currently running on Facebook, so you’re hitting people both with e-mail as well as retargeting at the same time and as they pass through that and they’re removed from that segment, they’re then pulled out and they’re out of the audience so that they’re no longer in your retargeted campaign.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, that’s some varsity level stuff, and I think it’s 99% of online retailers or not doing it, the 1% that are doing it are killing it and those are probably the top online retailers and it’s inter-purchase latency, discount ladders, sync to Facebook, at that point, you kind of just drop the mic and walk off stage when you got that “s’up?” Right?

Austin Brawner: Yes, exactly, but you might as well [crosstalk 00:28:42]

Drew Sanocki: Your work is done here.

Austin Brawner: Exactly. Most people I’ve worked in I would say, 40 to 50 maybe more Klaviyo accounts, gone into audits and consulting work, and I would say that 90% of the people that have gotten the accounts that have gone in are only using 10% to 30% of what’s available in Klaviyo or in their e-mail marketing per buyer, and that’s been kind of a big frustration. I know we’ve talked about this, frustration with doing one on one consulting is you can go in, do an audit. Tell, give an idea of what needs to change or what needs to be done. Give all the information and then three months later, nothing has changed, right, because there’s too much there and people go in and they start working, messing around with Klaviyo, have a little bit of doubt creep in that what they’re doing is the right thing because they’re not sure how it all works and get stuck and then sure enough, nothing changes and they’re still back to the point where they’re just sending campaign e-mails, have a couple of basic flows that are operating but are nowhere near maximized.

Drew Sanocki: Right, right.

Austin Brawner: That’s why Drew and I partnered together because we’re doing this. We kept telling people [crosstalk 00:30:13]

Drew Sanocki: I didn’t realize we’re going into this part yet.

Austin Brawner: Yeah, no. [crosstalk 00:30:16]

Drew Sanocki: I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I should have.

Austin Brawner: No, so Drew and I partnered together because we’ve both been doing this for a while and we can go here on the podcast, right, and talk about all these stuff to implement and most likely, it’s not going to happen, right? It’s building these systems out that drive sales consistently over time that convert your leads into customers, your customers into repeat customers. That’s what everybody wants. Downside is it’ll be complicated to do and the moment sometimes you run into a barrier, don’t know how the technology works, you can stop and you won’t progress down that road or people like to focus on product even if they know marketing automation is the answer, they may not dive into it. Yeah, that’s what Drew and I experienced and we partnered together to solve that, so if you, those are our top four tips. If you’re listening and you’re thinking to yourself, “My gosh, I’m leaving a lot of money on the table.” We want to talk to you guys about a e-mail marketing intensive workshop that Drew and I partnered together to host. This is a very unique opportunity.

In the past, we’ve done, we’ve both run an e-mail marketing agency. We’ve both done individual consulting. We partnered together to host this e-mail marketing intensive workshop where it’s two days of actually just building out all the steps that we’re talking about. We’re talking about flows, improving lead capture, segmentation, building automation into your e-mail marketing system. If you got a business doing around $1 million a year, maybe six figures, seven figures, lower eight figures, this workshop is designed to help you build and install an entire e-mail marketing system in two days and do it with our guidance and do it the right way.

Drew Sanocki: Okay, Austin. Yes, this event is going to be in March. We’re holding it in San Diego, the Monday and Tuesday, the 13th and 14th of March, and there are a couple reasons why we did it. We think, it’s really to address the top issues we have been encountering as consultants, so number one is probably the lack of implementation of what we consult on like people pay us money to come into their company and tell them how to do e-mail marketing and we leave and it doesn’t get done, so there are a lot of reasons for that. I think it’s, one reason is not that we’re not interesting or the knowledge isn’t good knowledge to have. I think it just has a lot more to do with other factors. We can tell you what to do in Klaviyo, but it’s sort of another thing to kind of get in there yourself and set up some of these campaigns and you can certainly read a book on segmentation and targeting, but it’s a whole lot other thing to implement the rules yourself and I think a lot of clients just lack the confidence because hey, they’re much more focused on other things like product and traffic and things that they probably find more interesting than e-mail marketing so.

Austin Brawner: Yeah. I got to totally agree. The road blocks, these little road blocks can stall any progress, right, where it’s like you get off a call. There’s a big roadmap of where to go and it’s all laid down step by step, build this e-mail, set it this date, but when you go in there and you are not quite sure if it’s set up correctly or if you’re going to be blasting your whole list with this thing, it can shut things down and can take a project that should be able to be done in a week out to three months or four months, and then it doesn’t get implemented and that’s the most frustrating thing of doing consulting, why we focus on this.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, so I think over the 48 hours we’ll be together at this conference, the idea is everybody will open up their laptops, open up to Klaviyo and we will just get going on analyzing your data with you and then helping you to implement the campaigns and the goal would be at the end of this two day seminar, you’ll have everything installed, basically. You can walk away and you’ve done the bulk of your e-mail marketing, your life cycle marketing for the next few years really, I mean you can do the occasional tune up but for the most part, it’s going to be done after those 48 hours.

Austin Brawner: Exactly, and it’s the reason why this is different than any other live event you’ve probably been to, marketing event you’ve been to, is it’s very, very limited, so we’re only accepting 15 businesses and then Drew and I will be there along with our team and so there’s going to be a lot of personalized hands on time where we’re looking over your shoulder, installing these things with you, taking our best campaigns that have worked for $100 million retailers, also $5 million retailers and installing versions of those that are personalized for your business and by the end, like Drew said, you’ll be able to press play and these things will be able to be, they’ll be sending out and you’ll be driving sales right away. It’s a limited group, like I said 15. It’s not for everyone. If you’re just starting out, it’s not a great fit. Everybody who’s going to be coming should have some semblance of flows up and running right now. That’s not a hard fast rule but you should be at least doing some things, sending out e-mails, driving sales, being mid six figure range because then you’ll be able to have the stuff work right away and get feedback on the stuff that we built.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, I think that’s probably a question, some of you might be asking is like, “Is this right for me?”

Austin Brawner: Yeah.

Drew Sanocki: I think, in my experience and Austin, correct me if it’s different in yours but if you’re not doing this kind of life cycle marketing and you go implement it, you can expect to see 20% to 30% lift over the next six months in your top and bottom line really, and that should just compound going forward as you keep more people in your marketing funnel for longer. A seminar like this would make sense if you’re roughly six figures and up, given you know the cost of the seminar and the travel cost to get there and things like that and if you’re anything above that revenue level, I’d say it’s kind of a no brainer if you’re not doing it. If you’re below that, then you probably should just focus a little bit more on acquisition for now until you do get up to some scale where it makes sense to focus more on e-mail.

Austin Brawner: Absolutely. If you’ve listened to our podcasts for quite some time and you’ve dabbled with this but you’re not satisfied and you know you’re leaving money on the table, I encourage you guys to apply and we’ll chat with you and see if it’s a good fit. You can head over to brandgrowthexperts.com/intensive. That’s brandgrowthexperts.com/intensive, where you’ll be able to apply. We’ll put the link in both of our show notes for you guys, but yeah, if you’re doing it, if you’ve done a little bit of this, you’re not satisfied with the results, you know you’re leaving money on the table, apply. We’ll take a look and see if it’s the right fit for you. Again, it’s coming down to getting the right group of 15 people so that we can work together for two days and build the stuff out with you.

Drew Sanocki: Yeah, I’m pumped.

Austin Brawner: Really pumped [crosstalk 00:38:34].

Drew Sanocki: To borrow your favorite word, I am pumped.

Austin Brawner: It is that favorite word, I am pumped most of the time and is especially when we’re talking about getting this. I mean so far like big group of people that we’ve assembled so far, is really top notch and I’m excited to work with every one of them and if you want to come in, if you’re listening and you know you got some opportunity there like you’re going to be in a room full of successful people who are focusing on profit, focusing on building better businesses and we’ll be there to give, to kind of share our years of knowledge doing this stuff with you so that it will be silky smooth and easy to get installed.

Drew Sanocki: Yes, that’s what I’m really excited about. I’m excited to spend two days just talking about marketing and e-mail, and meeting some people who are on my list. Austin, meeting you, I know we met once up in Seattle, but it would be nice to connect again and so I encourage everybody to yeah, go over to brandgrowthexperts.com/intensive and read more about the workshop.

Austin Brawner: Sounds good, Drew, good to chat. As always, we’ll have to keep doing some more of these and keep thumping the life cycle marketing.

Drew Sanocki: Drum.

Austin Brawner: Drum. It’s not being hit enough so good man, we’ll talk soon.

Drew Sanocki: Sounds good.